WAILIN WONG: Happy holidays from The Indicator. For the next week, we’re running some of our favorite shows from this year. Today’s episode details why celebrities are increasingly investing in their own brands.
ANNOUNCER: NPR.
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DARIAN WOODS: This is The Indicator from Planet Money. I’m Darian Woods.
WONG: And I’m Wailin Wong. Lisa Loeb is the singer-songwriter behind the ’90s Billboard hit “Stay.” I have belted this song many times.
WONG: [LISA LOEB, “STAY”] And you say
WONG: I only hear what I want to
WOODS: Is today going to be one of those days, Wailin?
WONG: Uh, no. I am not going to sing on this show.
[LAUGHS]
WOODS: Well, I only hear what I want. And so I heard you singing in my head. Lisa is known for her signature look, which is cat eye glasses.
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LISA LOEB: Not the cat eye of my grandmother, which is sort of that grandma pointy– very pointy, pinched look. But it was a little bit more of kind of a sexy librarian. And I just realized it was a really flattering shape, and it was one that I really gravitated towards.
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WONG: Lisa said people would often say to her, you should have your own line of eyewear. And she initially resisted this idea.
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LOEB: I think people were seen as dilettantes when you were just as interested in the T-shirts you were making as the music that you were making.
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WOODS: But as the music industry changed, so did Lisa’s thinking. And she launched her first collection of glasses frames in 2010.
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LOEB: I think now people see, you know, somebody’s lipstick brand as a creative outlet, just like they might see a song.
WONG: These days, celebrity brands are more than creative outlets. They’re also big business.
WOODS: Stars are starting their own companies and marketing products directly to their fans. So what is fueling this celebrity business bonanza? Today on the show, we hear from people following and making these deals, including another legendary singer.
WONG: It’s John Legend, guys. We got John Legend on the show.
WOODS: Oh, you just blurted it out.
WONG: [LAUGHS]
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WOODS: Famous people have been endorsing products for generations. Think about actress Elizabeth Taylor with her White Diamonds perfume or Michael Jordan’s blockbuster partnership with Nike.
WONG: And yet, there was a time when A-list movie stars were often reluctant to be the face of a brand. Amanda Dobbins covers movies and pop culture for The Ringer Podcast Network. And she says one of her favorite films is Lost in Translation. In it, Bill Murray plays a movie star who goes to Japan to shoot a commercial for Suntory Whiskey.
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BOB: For relaxing times, make it Suntory time.
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WONG: Amanda says this movie’s premise reflects celebrity culture in the early 2000s.
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AMANDA DOBBINS: At the time, it was seen as a little gauche for highfalutin actors to do commercials. So they wouldn’t do them in the United States, but they would do them abroad.
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WOODS: Fast forward to today, and the Super Bowl ads break is just full of celebrities. And stars have also gone beyond endorsement deals to launch their own companies, selling everything from liquor to baby products to cosmetics.
WONG: So how do we go from stars quietly doing commercials overseas to being front and center in promoting their own brands? Amanda says one big reason is the changing economics of being a celebrity, especially a movie star.
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DOBBINS: This idea that you would go see a movie because a movie star whose name you recognized was in it has changed, especially with Marvel and the superhero era. And so you’re going because you’re seeing a comic book or a comic character that you recognize or, you know, dinosaurs or a video game. And so those characters, those IP, are the, quote unquote, “movie stars” now. And as a result, the actual actors aren’t as big of a draw. And so they are not paid as much as they were.
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WOODS: To be clear, A-listers are doing just fine. But for something like a superhero movie, stars aren’t always making millions of dollars. Up-and-comer David Corenswet reportedly got paid $750,000 to play Superman in the new movie that premiered this summer.
WONG: And again, Superman, David Corenswet, he will be OK. He could earn bonuses based on box office performance. And his future paychecks likely will be much bigger. But Amanda says celebrities are eager to find income streams outside of show business.
WOODS: And it’s not considered selling out anymore. The rise of social media and influencer culture has normalized the idea that everyone can have a personal brand and be selling something.
WONG: Also, the money can be really good. Back in 2017, George Clooney and his two business partners sold their tequila brand to a multinational spirits company for a billion dollars. In 2020, that same multinational company bought Aviation Gin, a brand partially owned by actor Ryan Reynolds.
WOODS: Ari Bloom is the cofounder and CEO of A-Frame Brands. He is the guy that celebrities call to make their business mogul dreams come true.
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ARI BLOOM: We started getting a lot of calls because there were a lot of celebrities saying, well, look, Ryan just made $600 million on Aviation Gin. Why can’t I do that?
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WONG: And Ari says there are different levels of involvement. So on the lowest risk end, there’s the standard endorsement deal. Show up and shoot a commercial, or maybe sign a contract for an ongoing deal. In these cases, the celebrity doesn’t have to put in their own money. But the tradeoff is that the ultimate payday might be lower.
WOODS: The next level is investing in a company. That could be a tech startup, or it could be something less flashy, like a fast food franchise.
WONG: And then the final level is starting a brand from scratch, something that becomes part of the celebrity’s public profile. This kind of investment can really pay off, but it also carries more risk.
WOODS: Yeah, so for example, Dax Shepard and Kristen Bell’s baby product company filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2023. Jennifer Lopez had a restaurant in California that closed after a few years in business.
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BLOOM: I’ve told a lot of celebrities, are you ready to lose $5 million?
WONG: Really? I mean, is that, like, a realistic number?
BLOOM: Absolutely.
WONG: Wow.
BLOOM: The thing that comes with ownership sometimes is, like, if the business needs some capital, a lot of times, those celebrities are investing. And that’s great. It’s a great signal. If you want other investors, they also want to see that the celebrities are investing. That’s actually a really important question that they always ask. But it can be a cash suck for folks. And so just getting people ready for the fact that there will be ups and down, it’s not a straight line. And, you know, not everybody’s good with that.
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WOODS: You know who is good with that?
WONG: Can you just start off by introducing yourself, saying what your name is and what you do?
JOHN LEGEND: My name is John Legend. I’m an artist. I’m a songwriter. I’m an entrepreneur. And I’m excited to speak with you.
WOODS: I would be, too, Wailin.
WONG: Oh, that’s so nice. You know that John Legend is the first EGOT winner we’ve had on the show? Hopefully, not the last.
WOODS: That is the Emmy, Grammy, Oscar, and Tony.
WONG: Exactly.
WOODS: And he missed out one title that he used to have, which is actually management consultant–
WONG: That’s right.
WOODS: –at Boston Consulting Group.
WONG: His first job out of college.
WOODS: So business is not new to him. And he has business ventures that have included a wine brand and an app that gives food and travel recommendations. He also worked with Ari Bloom to launch a skincare line called LOVED01.
WONG: John told us that he takes inspiration from hip-hop artists like Jay-Z and Master P. They started their own record labels and showed what it looked like to have ownership over their careers.
LEGEND: We founded LOVED01 as a skincare company. And before that, I had done those traditional kind of brand sponsorships. And I saw what that relationship was like. And, you know, you get a check, and you do your thing, and then you move on. And I decided I wanted to take more ownership and start something of my own.
WONG: And John says he understands the risks.
LEGEND: You don’t have the scale that these huge companies have. But you do have your name and whatever that means, your reputation. And then you try to parlay that into building a brand that will connect with the audience. And that’s what we’re trying to do with LOVED01.
WONG: Do you remember the first time you saw one of your products out in the wild?
LEGEND: Oh, yeah, it was so cool. I think it was at CVS. And, you know, it was so exciting to actually go into one of those stores and see LOVED01 on the shelves.
WONG: Yeah. Were you like, I don’t want this locked up?
LEGEND: We never locked it up, thankfully.
[LAUGHTER]
WOODS: Let the people have their celebrity skincare products.
WONG: Listen, I have the makeup from Selena Gomez’s brand. I own a top from Kate Hudson’s athleisure line. Darian, I know you are a customer of Mint Mobile, which Ryan Reynolds used to be a part owner in before he sold it to T-Mobile.
WOODS: Yeah, only because of Ryan Reynolds.
WONG: [LAUGHS] Is that why you subscribed? Well, you know, the actors who do the SmartLess podcast, they’re launching their own cell phone company.
WOODS: All right, where do I sign up?
WONG: [LAUGHS]
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WONG: This episode was produced by Cooper Katz McKim and engineered by Jimmy Keeley. It was fact-checked by Sierra Juarez. Kate Concannon is our editor. And The Indicator is a production of NPR.
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