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John Carter Cash has enjoyed a remarkable career in the music industry. Winning multiple GRAMMY awards for his work as a producer, he has collaborated with a succession of iconic artists, from John Prine to Emmylou Harris, Kris Kristofferson to Elvis Costello, Chris Cornell to Loretta Lynn, and many, many more household names. He is also an inventive songwriter, whose songs range from sombre, heartfelt ballads to the island music of his latest release. Cash\u2019s new album, \u201cPineapple John\u201d<\/em>, was released the day after AUK\u2019s Andrew Frolish caught up with him to discuss life, family, legacy and new music. The new record is full of life, vitality and sunshine, a character-driven musical journey, rich in storytelling and humanity, while maintaining a delightful lightness of touch. Open-hearted and authentic, Cash shares the joy and inspiration of his parents, June Carter and Johnny Cash, and how they live on through their music and that of their children and grandchildren. His books about his parents are intimate, sensitive portraits that reveal much of the most iconic family in American country and folk. Join us as we explore the many facets of John Carter Cash.<\/p>\n Andrew:<\/strong> I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to Americana UK.<\/p>\n John:<\/strong> Yes, sir, Andrew, I\u2019m glad to talk to you.<\/p>\n Andrew:<\/strong> Let\u2019s start, of course, with the brand-new album, \u201cPineapple John\u201d<\/em>. It\u2019s a kind of concept album. Can you tell our readers what it\u2019s about and the narrative and themes behind it?<\/p>\n John:<\/strong> Yeah, you know, I grew up on the ocean. I spent a lot of time in Florida when I was young. My father had a boat, and he would just go out 20, 30 miles into the ocean, and we would fish on the bottom and float around all day, catch a bunch of fish. I have a boat still in Florida. The ocean has always meant a lot to me. My parents had a place in Jamaica. So, I spent time down there growing up, and I\u2019ve always been connected to it. During the coronavirus times, we\u2018d been sitting there, having been at home most of the winter and then come into spring, and you couldn\u2019t go to where it\u2019s warm. I was thinking about the sea and wishing I could go to the coast. My son and I were driving around, and he started beating a rhythm on the dashboard, and I started singing \u2018Pineapple John\u2019. I guess that was the beginning of it.<\/p>\n Over the next month or so, I began to work in the studio again after having not done so for a few months. I began to write with other people, and we just stayed and focused on this sort of spirit of Pineapple John and his storyline. My son, Joseph, and I wrote some music together for it, and then my son, Jack and I actually wrote the theme song, \u2018Pineapple John\u2019<\/em>. It just all came together \u2013 a story in my mind. There was this washed-up old songwriter on the beach, and this was his life. He\u2019d been looking for a girl that he had misplaced many years before, that he\u2019d done wrong, trying to find her, but he never could. This is the latter part of his time running hard, living a sort of a rebel\u2019s life. There are songs on there, I think, that maybe the character would have sung in a bar if he was a real musician, but there are also songs that mean a lot to me, like \u2018Jamaica Farewell\u2019<\/em> and \u2018Shame and Scandal\u2019<\/em>. I\u2019d always wanted to find a reason to record \u2018Ballad of Spider John\u2019<\/em> by Willis Alan Ramsey, and it happened to just fit right into the storyline. But everything else amongst the 16 songs, except for the James Taylor song at the end, are all original compositions. There are a lot of co-writes, stuff that I wrote with other people. I usually had the original creative thrust for them, and then people helped me finish. It was just a lot of fun, you know! To me, I like to watch films, and so why not listen to a full album, you know? That\u2019s sort of what this is. It\u2019s a visual experience for your heart by music.<\/p>\n Andrew:<\/strong> It\u2019s a beautiful idea. Pineapple John is a well-realised character. What was the real inspiration behind him? Was there anybody you had in mind, and what should we learn from his character?<\/p>\n John:<\/strong> Yeah \u2013 be responsible in the first place, maybe! I think the character was burning the candle really hard when he was younger and wound up being washed up on the beach, sinking into his own mind. There\u2019s a lot of real, deep interior work in this album with songs like \u2018Uncle Ben, the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea\u2019<\/em>, \u2018The Hole in the Bottom of the Sea\u2019<\/em> and \u2018The Ocean Calling\u2019<\/em>. There\u2019s a lot of depth within the mind. I think it\u2019s also important to have your own interpretation of the album. It\u2019s not certain. It\u2019s like listening to \u201cThe Wall\u201d<\/em> by Pink Floyd \u2013 you don\u2019t necessarily know every bit of the storyline, but you can grasp the emotional arc of the story, right? I think he lost the girl and went looking for her, but he got lost himself while looking. In the end, to me, he actually floats out into the ocean, and he sees a girl swimming, and then she turns around and flaps her tail, and she happens to be a mermaid. He\u2019s trying to catch her, but even at the very end, it\u2019s uncertain, you know? You can take it however you want to see the album. To me, that\u2019s what I like about music and songs like \u2018The Ballad of Lucy Jordan\u2019<\/em> by poet and songwriter Shel Silverstein and \u2018Young Lust\u2019<\/em> by Pink Floyd; songs like that create a visual for the story, but also leave it up to your own personal interpretation. And so that\u2019s sort of Pineapple John \u2013 that\u2019s sort of the story of this character. There are a lot of things that are like Pineapple John, but it\u2019s definitely not me. It\u2019s a fictional character.<\/p>\n Andrew:<\/strong> It\u2019s got some real emotional contrasts across the album. Some of the songs are really playful and quite comic. Then, others are more personal, and meaningful, and heartfelt in a way. So, was that balance important to you, and how did you achieve the tone?<\/p>\n John:<\/strong> Yeah, it is important to me that this album would show the humour in the spirit and the laughter and the irony. You know, it showed that our character is not shallow, that that he\u2019s sort of lost in that interior journey. The whole album is really an interior journey, a soul-searching experience. And it was for me \u2013 the creation of it. I went through a lot of the arcs that the character went through during the time that I was making the album, and in the coming back into back into the world again, coming back into working again and making and producing music again, coming out of coronavirus. We really finished the album a couple years later, but that\u2019s where the writing of it all began. So, it was definitely a journey, and I can\u2019t say that I knew where it was going to go when it started, but I think about halfway through, maybe I did. I knew that I wanted to say certain things about this character, and that I didn\u2019t want to just record songs for the beach either. If the songs were written by somebody else, I wanted them to mean something to me. Or when it was a classic cover like \u2018Jamaica Farewell\u2019<\/em>, that\u2019s one of those the most meaningful songs in my life. When I was young, I remember my father singing it. I think it\u2019s also very meaningful in my mind to the character because he\u2019s missing the girl that he never had. In the case of the song, it\u2019s missing the girl that he knows he\u2019s going to have to leave, right?<\/p>\n Andrew:<\/strong> You did a lot of instrumental work on the album as well: the acoustic guitar, the 12-string, even things like the sea pods and the tuna sticks and the frog hand drum and so on. What was it like putting all that together?<\/p>\n John:<\/strong> It was fun. I mean, we had no rules! I don\u2019t know how many percussive instruments there are on \u2018Pineapple John\u2019<\/em>, the song itself. There\u2019s probably more than are listed. But I did have the chance to work with Sam Baco, who is one of the greatest percussionists in Nashville, and has been there for years and years. Sam also has an amazing amount of of instruments! He has the largest collection of a musician in Nashville; he\u2019s got a whole warehouse full of percussion instruments. So when I played the album for him and asked if he had any steel drums or a marimba and he said, \u201cOh, yeah, how many marimbas do you want?\u201d He was able to put a lot of stuff on there, and it was fun, you know? Some songs, like \u2018Pineapple John\u2019, are reliant on that sort of Rolling Stones kind of percussion. Not that the song sounds like the Rolling Stones, but there are so many percussive instruments, and they\u2019re all hanging with the groove. It sort of works that way with a conglomeration of sound. It\u2019s definitely all within the frame of island music. I grew up listening to Bob Marley, Calypso and Harry Belafonte. That music was as important to me as hard rock was when I was young. It was in my soul, and I guess this album\u2019s been been trying to come out for a long time.<\/p>\n Andrew:<\/strong> All that instrumental work really does come through in the playful island tone of the music. It\u2019s also a real family affair. You\u2019ve got your wife on there, your daughter and your nephew. What was it like being able to work together with your family like that? How does that change the experience for you?<\/p>\n John: <\/strong>It was so much fun. With Thomas, my nephew, he was just right for the character. I mean, to me, he was the old seaman with that deep baritone voice, which is perfect for \u2018The Hole in the Bottom of the Sea\u2019<\/em>. And working with my son Jack was great \u2013 he was young at the time, 16 years old. We were laughing and having a good time and connecting as a father and son in the creation of this. My son, Joseph, had moved to New York City before coronavirus, and then he came home right at the top of the pandemic. So, it was a way for us to get back into the studio together again and start making music again. And that was very meaningful. He\u2019s a great musician, Joseph is. He does audiovisual, a filmmaker now for the most part. He does play guitar and mandolin, although not as much as he used to. But back then, I\u2019d call him for mandolin as much as I would anything because he\u2019s just a wonderful player. I think that\u2019s part of what the deal is. Yes, my wife\u2019s on it and my sons and so on, but they\u2019re just handy master musicians and vocalists. It just happens to be that I\u2019m related to them. And I know that this is true about them. They are an easier call because they\u2019re family, but they\u2019re still the right call.<\/p>\n Andrew:<\/strong> That\u2019s a brilliant way of looking at it. You\u2019ve also got people like Marty Stuart on there. What was it like working with him?<\/p>\n John:<\/strong> Hey, it was fun. I always love to work with Marty, and he and I have done a lot together off and on through the years. What was interesting about working with Marty was when we were working on the last song on the album, which Marty plays on, we were missing a guitar solo. I knew that I wanted it to be a wailing, Les Paul-style guitar solo playing the melody and then playing an intricate melody to make it through the modulations, leading into the last section. He said, \u201cWhat are you hearing on this?\u201d And I said, \u201cWell, I hear a Les Paul.\u201d He said, \u201cI\u2019ve never played a Les Paul.\u201d I did a sort of double-take. So, I let him borrow my Les Paul, and that\u2019s the first time Marty Stuart has ever played a Les Paul in his life. On that solo, that\u2019s my 1959 Les Paul that he\u2019s playing. I\u2019ve had that for years and years, but that\u2019s the first time he ever picked one up, and I think he did a great job.<\/p>\n Andrew:<\/strong> So, there\u2019s a lot of collaboration on the album. Of course, the job that is the ultimate in collaboration is being a producer, and that\u2019s something that you\u2019re so well known for. Let\u2019s talk about your work as a producer, starting with your early work and working with Rick Rubin. What did you learn from him, and what it was like when you first met him and were influenced by him?<\/p>\n John:<\/strong> Yeah, I worked with Rick in the studio when I was working with my father. One thing was I was very green. I was very young and I was learning. I was willing to learn, still. I think I was more vocal, and I would move faster with my decisions. I would go from the hip more. One thing I learned from Rick was when not to intercede and when to sit back. Also, I learned how to be a part of the recording. Rick, when the musicians are working, sits right in the room with them, and it\u2019s an experience that he has with the musicians. Ever since I began working with Rick, that\u2019s what I do also. I always sit in the room with the musicians. I don\u2019t go in the console room and be this voice from afar, like a lot of producers will and then just try to orchestrate. I like to be a part of the creation process. So, I did learn that from Rick, and I\u2019m sure a whole lot more, like how to be open-minded, how to make the artists most important. This is not stuff that they put in books.<\/p>\n My job as a producer \u2013 you could read a book about it, but there\u2019s not a \u2018how to be a record producer\u2019 tool. There is, but it\u2019s not like you can go and apply for the jobs \u2013 it\u2019s not that easy. It\u2019s a hard thing to get into in many different ways. I think that when I decided I was going to start producing records, it was actually after I\u2019d worked with my mother on \u2018Wildwood Flower\u2019<\/em>, and I was looking at my life ahead of me, and I just had to work. So, I just began making more and more music. Don Was gave me a lot of really good early direction for being a record producer. It was just more about persistence and carrying on, and just keep doing what you\u2019re doing, and maybe someday something will work. What Don was offering to me just sort of stuck in my head and became a way of living. All through my life, I think the most important thing that I\u2019ve learned as a record producer is when not to speak up, but when to sit back and let the artist be who they are. Then, you have to find those elements about the artist that are going to make the best presentation for an album and clarify later, but let them be as creative as they want. Take every different channel that they want, try different things, record as much as they want as material and then look at it all later. So, that\u2019s what I like to do when I make it a record \u2013 let the artists have the greatest time of their life and then capture it where I can.<\/p>\n Andrew:<\/strong> That must be a wonderful experience for the artist, especially with you being in the room with them and being immersed in it. It must have been an incredible experience producing for your mum, June Carter, on albums like \u201cPress On\u201d<\/em>. What was it like producing firstly for a family member like that, but secondly, somebody who is such a legendary figure in her own right?<\/p>\n John:<\/strong> My mother was talking about making an album, and I told her that was great. I was glad she was going to do that. Then she came to me and said she wanted me to co-produce the record. At that time, I really didn\u2019t know that I wanted to produce music. I didn\u2019t know that I was going to be a record producer, and I said, \u201cOkay, well, let\u2019s do it!\u201d I got excited about potentially working on an album. Working with J.J. Blair on that record as my co-producer was great, because J.J. was still young in his career, but he was also so knowledgeable about microphones and recording in general, about what sound is and how to make things sound good. He and I were both extremely green on Pro Tools, but we worked on Pro Tools on that record. We recorded it on eight tracks and then did the editing on Pro Tools. We were both in the early parts of our careers, but he was further along than I was in many different ways, and so I learned a lot from him.<\/p>\n Working with my mum, it was a family affair to her. She was going to record the entire family, all of her grandchildren, if she could get them all in one room. She wanted to surround herself with them and have them sing every word with her. I tried to say, \u201cNo, Mom, sing this one by yourself,\u201d here and there, where I felt like it was important. At the same time, I still let her lead the charge. I mean, when we recorded \u201cWildwood Flower\u201d<\/em>, the last record that she did, I remember we had three days of sessions and she recorded 14 songs and at least three takes for each song. It was something just to see her drive, even though she was feeling ill. The air conditioning was out. Half the time we were recording in Virginia, there was no air conditioning in that house. When we had to record, we didn\u2019t want this loud air conditioner on the tape and on the recording, so, we had to have to turn that off. She had somebody help fan her and keep her cool while she was singing, you know. But she had a great drive, and that whole thought of pressing on was just how she lived her life. She pressed on. And it mattered; it made a difference. She\u2019s going to the Country Music Hall of Fame this year, and she\u2019s very due for that. The film about her that came out this past year is also a wonderful documentary. There\u2019s a lot about my mother that was special. A lot of the good in my life that I\u2019ve been able to achieve has come from my mom.<\/p>\n Andrew:<\/strong> Beyond family, you\u2019ve produced for so many famous names. The list of much-loved figures is incredible, like Kris Kristofferson, Willie Nelson, John Prine, Elvis Costello, Mavis Staples and so on. What things perhaps stand out as special moments or times you\u2019re really proud of? What achievements with these sorts of artists have remained with you?<\/p>\n John:<\/strong> I think sometimes you\u2019re just doing it, you\u2019re just working, you don\u2019t notice when it happens how important it\u2019s going to be later. I mean, working with John Prine was wonderful, and having Kris Kristofferson in the studio with the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, I\u2019m still friends with those guys. After all these years, that means so much to us. Now, all of us still remember that session. Working with George Jones in the studio at the Cash Cabin was an amazing experience. Working with Chris Cornell from Soundgarden was great \u2013 I was a monstrous fan of that music myself in my early 20s. So, that was a life moment for me to be able to work with Chris and to be that involved with him in the writing process. Then, he and I got to be friends, and it was very sad when he passed, and it means a whole lot that we recorded together.<\/p>\n Working with my sisters, Carlene and Rosanne, on various projects was all meaningful. I won a GRAMMY last year with The String Revolution and Tommy Emmanuel, and recording that track was an amazing experience. Working with Tommy was just unforgettable, as was working with The String Revolution, for that matter. We just did another track that\u2019s out right now: \u2018America\u2019<\/em>, the song from \u201cWest Side Story\u201d<\/em>, featuring 5-times GRAMMY-nominated sax player Lakecia Benjamin. I look at the artists that I like, and it\u2019s been wonderful to record with them, such as working with Marty in the studio doing the \u201cBadlands: Ballads of the Lakota\u201d<\/em> album. He and I were talking the other day, thinking about how it was one of our favourite experiences in the studio. Some of his friends from the reservation, the indigenous people, came down and recorded with us at Cash Cabin, which was full of musicians and people, and it was, looking back now, an amazing experience. I just didn\u2019t know how rare it was.<\/p>\n I think that sometimes when you have no rules in the studio, you wind up with some really rare experiences later down the line, and so those mean a lot. But working with my dad, I mean, I\u2019ve got to say, he was the most magical person in the studio. He was the boss. He was in control. He had days that weren\u2019t as good as others. But when I look at the complete work that he did, it just lasts, and his persistence was amazing. However, the person that I\u2019ve worked the most with in the studio is Loretta Lynn; we\u2019ve finished over 100 songs. There are four albums released, but there will be a fifth album of that series that will come out. So, I learned more from her than I probably have anybody else in the studio. She was a master vocalist. She was a wonderful person and was so much like my mother. So working with her all those years after my mom passed was a great healing thing for me. It\u2019s good talking to you \u2013 I\u2019m realising it in so many ways how important my time in the studio has been in my life. Most certainly, I\u2019ve learned how to behave and how not to behave.<\/p>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/americana-uk.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/Pineapple-John-_cover-scaled.jpg\")
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