\t\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tPatti Smith Tribute <\/span><\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tAl Pereira<\/cite><\/p>\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n \n\tAre you competing with Live Nation and AEG, or are you in your own lane?<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tI\u2019m definitely in my own lane. At this point, we are the largest independent chain of music venues which puts us in an interesting position. All of our City Winery locations are right around a 300-seat capacity. That\u2019s our sweet spot. That\u2019s not a capacity that the duopoly of Life Nation and AEG care about. Live Nation started to dip down into the sub-1,000 capacity for a little bit, and they\u2019re back to staying at 1,500 and 2,000-seat spaces or larger. Look, they\u2019re friends. We work with Live Nation and AEG when an artist wants to do a three-, four- or five-night run. Comedians like John Mulaney could have worked anywhere. He didn\u2019t need to do 37 nights with us. He wanted an intimate space where he could work out his material before doing a big theater or stadium or arena tour. But we\u2019re definitely under their radar because of our size.<\/p>\n \n\tSo, how do you make your business work with such small-capacity venues?<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tIt\u2019s the old axiom: In sports and entertainment, the profits are in the popcorn. That\u2019s our internal mantra. Most of the ticket money from the box office is going to the talent, and after the Knitting Factory I had a chance to really think about business models. I didn\u2019t want to do anything with intellectual property rights anymore. I want to put on live shows and figure out a way to make money from them, which is really hard.<\/p>\n \n\tThe money is in the popcorn, and I was like, all right, I\u2019m going to make a lot of the popcorn in the form of wine. I\u2019m going to focus on really good food, and those margins are good. I decided to go all-in on the hospitality side. I know Madison Square Garden and the Sphere \u2014\u00a0places like that are trying to upgrade their food and their beverage, no question. That\u2019s been a trend for 15-20 years. But it\u2019s not any kind of Danny Meyer-level experience.<\/p>\n \n\tYour menus offer elevated cuisine.<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tThe hardest thing we do is trying to provide that restaurant level service and hospitality and quality of food, so that it\u2019s an elevated restaurant and concert experience. Live Nation and AEG \u2014 their job is to compete hard for the biggest names in entertainment, give them a really good environment and let as many people see them as possible at the highest price. The food and beverage sales are all ancillary thoughts \u2014 it\u2019s just a side hustle.<\/p>\n \n\tFor years, I\u2019ve heard that City Winery pays artists more than other venues.<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tI don\u2019t think we pay them more. I think we pay them a pretty high percentage of the overall box office. For agents that I\u2019ve worked with \u2014 Frank Riley at High Road Touring, one of the great agents \u2014 I\u2019ve worked with him for 40 years. He knows that we\u2019re honest, and we might just do an 80\/20 split of the gate, or in some cases, 90\/10 \u2014 don\u2019t say that too loud \u2014 but if we have to go to that extreme, we recognize that, for artists these days, live shows are their main source of income. So, if Graham Nash would prefer to be in a more intimate environment for three or four nights in a row \u2014 or we\u2019re very close to announcing 30 nights of Todd Rundgren between all of our locations \u2014 wouldn\u2019t their audiences prefer to sit than stand? Yes. Would they like to have some good food and wine served in a glass versus a plastic cup? Yes. Will they stand for the encore, and will we break 30 glasses because of this scenario? That\u2019s fine. A really good show means we\u2019re breaking a lot of glasses because that means people are getting up, and we appreciate that. Riedel, our glass partner, is very happy with City Winery. We buy more Riedel glassware than any other restaurant in the country.<\/p>\n \n\tAnd Riedel makes high-end glassware.<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tWhen I built the first City Winery location on Varick Street, I reached out to Maximilian Riedel, and I said, \u201cHow do I position City Winery to be a legitimate wine-obsessed place?\u201d And we basically started a partnership. If Live Nation ever bought us, and they looked at our numbers, they would be like, \u201cWhat are you doing with the Riedel glassware?\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tI firmly believe that when an audience member who knows something about wine, sees that the glass we\u2019re pouring wine into is Riedel, they care about that. It\u2019s why we have Meyer sound. When the tour manager and the roadies see that the quality of the PA system is better than where they just came from, it means we\u2019re taking it seriously.<\/p>\n \n\tIf Live Nation wanted to buy you, would you sell?<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tAnybody would sell for the right price. We are a very capital-intensive business, and I was very lucky that we survived the pandemic. We\u2019ve done some private equity over the years. Small stuff. Nothing institutional. We\u2019re able to play a little bit in the fast-growth hospitality financing world. We get some good valuation stuff there.<\/p>\n \n\tI\u2019ve talked to both Live Nation and AEG in the past, and they\u2019ve studied us. We would need to get to a little bigger scale before we would become attractive.<\/p>\n \n\tI\u2019ve noticed that you are doing more comedy \u2014 or at least promoting it more.<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tYeah, it has been super fun to play host to Kevin Hart<\/a> and Jon Stewart. I think what happened post-pandemic, in 2021 and 2022, was comedy clubs \u2014 the small, low ceiling, 150-capacity packed, packed spaces \u2014 got a little uncomfortable both for the artist and the fan. City Winery obviously doesn\u2019t have that atmosphere. I think there was a desire to work out material in a little bit larger room. And we were in the right place at the right time. So, more and more artists and agents \u2013 [WME\u2019s] Mike Berkowitz was a big one \u2014 started waking up. Seth Meyers<\/a>, who lives a few blocks away, came in and was like, \u201cWow, I can make a little more money; my audience is going to be happier, and I can just walk here.\u201d So, we started getting some momentum.<\/p>\n \n\tI also think there was a slight zeitgeist change post-pandemic. The world has gotten a little kookier politically, and between the various wars and what\u2019s happening from a social standpoint, the cathartic need to laugh has never been greater. Seeing comedy at The Beacon or Town Hall is great, but to get the material to a place where it\u2019s really working, there need to be development rooms. And we\u2019re in a good place to do that.<\/p>\n \n\tSo, we\u2019ve not become best friends with our comedy club colleagues. They\u2019re a little irritated that we\u2019re doing more comedy. I feel bad about that, but we\u2019re just a stage and our role in the ecosystem is to provide a really good room and an appropriate space for what people want. <\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tEl Bar <\/span><\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tEllie McIntyre<\/cite><\/p>\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n \n\tYou produce annual tributes to major artists at Carnegie Hall. How did those come about? \u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tI guess it was the end of the Knitting Factory time for me, and I got invited to be part of this UJA- Federation sub-nonprofit called Music for Youth Foundation. It was all of the big shots in the music industry \u2014 the head of BMI, head of ASCAP, Sony, Universal. They held a luncheon every year called The Man of the Year Steven Ross Humanitarian Luncheon. It would honor David Geffen and Ahmet Ertegun and the Walter Yetnikoff, and it would pull in a lot of money.<\/p>\n \n\tBut In 2000 and 2001, obviously, the music industry started having some hiccups. This luncheon went from making millions of dollars to pretty much drying up.<\/p>\n \n\tI\u2019m at BMI\u2019s table, and we\u2019re discussing what do we do. I nervously raised my hand and said, \u201cWhat about putting on a show. I\u2019ve got this hankering for doing a series of rock honors at Carnegie Hall. My mentor, George Wein, works at Carnegie Hall with JVC Jazz, but I think if you did something in the rock genre, it could really stand out.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI think the first one would be the music of Joni Mitchell<\/a>.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tThey were like, \u201cKid, it\u2019s a crazy idea. You\u2019re meshugana. You\u2019re going to lose so much money. We\u2019re not behind it.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tSo, my foot is deep in my mouth. I did not have the money for this, but I said, \u201cThis is what I\u2019ll do. If I could just get everyone to help \u2014 with talent and please buy some tickets. If it loses a penny, I\u2019ll take full responsibility. I\u2019ll pay for it and give 100% of the net profits back to the organization. So, no lose.\u201d They said, \u201cGo ahead.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tWe did the first one in 2004 and sold out. We made $100,000 and I gave it all to the organization. Year two, the thing was still part of Music for Youth, and they\u2019re wanting to get more involved. I\u2019m like, \u201cCan I see where the money is going? I raised $100,000 but I think we only distributed $50,000 or $60,000 of it.\u201d They\u2019re like, \u201cThere\u2019s a lot of overhead here.\u201d I said, \u201cI\u2019m going to do this independently. I\u2019m just going to write the checks directly to the organizations.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tIt has been 21 years, and we sell out and make about $100,000 every year. This year we\u2019re going to do a little better. I\u2019ve raised over $2 million for music education programs, and it\u2019s been fun as can be. Half the honorees attend. Bruce Springsteen <\/a>came out on the stage and played his encore, and David Byrne <\/a>wanted to do a marching band in his show. He did it coming down the front aisle. R.E.M. did its last performance as a group in New York during their encore.<\/p>\n![\"Patti](\"https:\/\/www.billboard.com\/wp-content\/themes\/vip\/pmc-billboard-2021\/assets\/public\/lazyload-fallback.gif\")
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