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\t\t\t\t\tKarolina Wydra as Zosia and Samba Schutte as Mr. Koumba Diabat\u00e9 in Pluribus episode two.<\/span><\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCourtesy of Apple TV<\/p>\n<\/div>\n \n\tYou\u2019re also a stand-up comedian, and Vince GIlligan shows have a storied history of casting comedians (Bob Odenkirk, Bill Burr, Lavell Crawford, Joe DeRosa). Did this pattern come up at all?<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tWe just talked about the amount of comedy in this story. We very quickly established that, even though there\u2019s moments where Koumba is the comedic relief, we\u2019re not playing for the joke. As a very grounded character, anything you do has to come from the character himself within the situation. So Vince really appreciated my physical comedy and my ability to find the humor in a scene, but it always had to feel real and grounded. I love that he appreciates comedy.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tTo be honest with you, Vince is a very, very funny person. He came up with a bunch of buttons each time, like the Harrison Ford bit on Air Force One in episode two. And when all the women leave him alone in the hot tub, it was his idea to have Koumba be like, \u201cJoette?\u201d So he comes up with these buttons on the spot, and he trusts comedians to be able to deliver them within a very dramatic moment or scene. It felt very reassuring for him to have confidence in my abilities, but it was very much like, \u201cHey, don\u2019t overdo it. Bob Odenkirk talks a lot with his hands because comedians want to do the thing, but just remember you\u2019re enough.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tYou recently attended a charity <\/strong>event<\/strong><\/a> alongside Rhea, Bob and several other Better Call Saul folks. Did you get a chance to talk about your Vince Gilligan experiences?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tI got a chance to talk to Bob, and he was like, \u201cSo what\u2019s it like working with Vince [on Pluribus]?\u201d And I told him that Vince is just one of the most collaborative people I\u2019ve ever met. He just wants to bring out the best in everybody. No ideas are worthless. I then talked about how Rhea called and welcomed me when I got the job, and to say that she wanted to rehearse with me. And Bob just went, \u201cYeah, she learned from the best.\u201d (Laughs.)\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tAt the premiere, I met a few people from Better Call Saul, like Michael Mando, and they all said that working on a Vince Gilligan set is very unique in Hollywood. It\u2019s very much its own experience, and you feel how special it is because everyone feels like family. So it was just so reassuring to be welcomed and to hear that confirmation from these legends who have also worked with Vince.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tSamba Schutte as Mr. Koumba Diabat\u00e9 in Pluribus.<\/span><\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tApple TV+<\/p>\n<\/div>\n \n\tUnlike Carol, Mr. Diabat\u00e9 is having the time of his life in this post-Joining existence. How much do you know about his old life that might explain this very clich\u00e9d fantasy world he\u2019s created for himself?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tWe talked about it. In the audition, his name was Mr. Koumba, and I thought that was really funny because Koumba is a woman\u2019s name in my [Mauritanian] culture. The only way you get named after a woman in my culture is when your mother dies during childbirth. So I was like, \u201cThat\u2019s a very interesting quality that Vince came up with, wow.\u201d I then told this to Vince, and he was like, \u201cI had no idea. I just came up with an African name, and Mr. Koumba sounded cool.\u201d And I was like, \u201cWell, this is a fun detail to have for this character,\u201d because he doesn\u2019t have family members when he shows up on Air Force One. Like Carol, he\u2019s very much alone. He shows up with supermodels, sure, but he doesn\u2019t have any family with him.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tSo we talked about his backstory, and Vince said, \u201cThis guy did not come from opulence. He did not have a good life, and he was never successful with women. He was probably very geeky, nerdy and alone. Now, all of a sudden, he\u2019s a kid in a candy shop, and he has the desire to live out the greatest fantasies he\u2019s ever had.\u201d So that informed me about who this guy is, and again, he\u2019s not a sleaze bag or a creep. He\u2019s someone who\u2019s embraced the change, and he\u2019s learned the rules of the game in order to navigate it. So he decided he\u2019s going to live the best life he possibly can until they find a way to turn him.<\/p>\n \n\tThe way he mimicked Carol\u2019s open-faced avocado toast sandwich, as if he\u2019d never seen it before, also suggested to me that he didn\u2019t come from much. So he\u2019s probably just aping the stereotypical version of wealth he saw on TV.<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tYeah, or what he\u2019s observed of other people or what he thinks you would do if you had all the money and power in the world. That [breakfast] scene was so key because it showed how curious he is to experience new things. Why choose The Westgate? Why be fascinated by Elvis Presley? Why mash the avocado and toast together to mimic Carol? It\u2019s because he\u2019s so curious about new experiences, and he wants to pay attention to all the little details of what makes something so special or delicious. So that scene was so special because he bonds with Carol, and he gains a new experience from her.<\/p>\n \n\tHaving done some homework on you, your needs and wants don\u2019t overlap with Koumba\u2019s in any way, shape or form, so did you have any difficulty stepping into his shoes?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tIt was more like, \u201cCan I live up to this guy?\u201d I\u2019ve never been surrounded by supermodels in my life. I\u2019ve never been in a hot tub with five at the same time in my life. That was the first thing I filmed, by the way. I met these women as all of us were naked in a hot tub, and that was its own thing. So, because I started with episode six, I was very intimidated on my first day of filming.<\/p>\n \n\tAfter I got to the hotel in Vegas, security guards stopped me to say, \u201cYou\u2019re the guy!\u201d And I was like, \u201cWhat do you mean I\u2019m the guy?\u201d So they took me outside and showed me the huge posters of Koumba hanging everywhere. And I was like, \u201cOh, that is who this character is.\u201d He\u2019s just embracing being the king of the court. So I really had to step into those shoes, and I brought it back to what Vince and I talked about beforehand: \u201cHe\u2019s like a kid in a candy store, so play it from that sweetness, and the rest will follow.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tPerhaps his most admirable quality is that he won\u2019t turn his back on Carol like the other Old-Schoolers and the Joined. Why do you think he continues to give her the benefit of the doubt?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tHe recognizes the loneliness in her. He doesn\u2019t like being abandoned either. So Koumba cares about Carol because he knows that she is struggling not only with her loneliness, but also with the change in the world. I love that he\u2019s this rational guy who can have these valid counterarguments to her point of view, but still understand where she\u2019s coming from. He\u2019ll be like, \u201cBut at the same time, peace on earth.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tShe needs an ally, and because of his diplomatic humanitarian nature, he recognizes some things in her that bond them. As much as he loves his new life, he, just like her, does not want to sacrifice his individuality [to the Joining]. So he values that in her and says, \u201cHey, we\u2019re on the same team here. We\u2019re just approaching this differently.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tWe only hear his side of a phone call in which he says, \u201cBut she\u2019s so lonely.\u201d Do you think that was when the Joined encouraged him to broker the peace treaty that Carol rejected before driving off?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tI think he was trying to negotiate on her behalf: \u201cWhy won\u2019t you guys return?\u201d And as he tells Carol at the end, the only way they\u2019ll return is if she has a change of heart. He\u2019s the mediator in this conflict between the Others or the Joined. I also think that was the phone call where he finds out that they can\u2019t turn either of them without permission. They can\u2019t gather their stem cells [without consent]. He said to Carol, \u201cThey made this discovery only yesterday.\u201d So that phone call has many layers to it, but more than anything, he is negotiating on Carol\u2019s behalf because he feels her pain and her loneliness.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tSo you receive Vera Blasi\u2019s script for episode six, and you suddenly read that the individual known as John Cena appears to explain HDP (Human-Derived Protein). How does one react to that out-of-left-field cameo?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\t(Laughs.) I mean, come on! Who doesn\u2019t want to work with John Cena? It was hilarious and exciting to read that wrestler\/actor John Cena was going to explain why they eat bodies. But I did not know how it was going to go down [on the day]. When we eventually filmed the scene, it was actually Vince on the TV [to our surprise]. He recorded himself talking about the milk and why they drink it.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tRhea and I had to react to Vince saying, \u201cWe\u2019re cannibals, but we have to be.\u201d (Schutte imitates Gilligan\u2019s warm Southern accent.) So that was a lot of fun, but to know that it was eventually going to be John Cena was so perfect. Who better than John Cena to break down why they\u2019re cannibals and make sense of it in a sweet PowerPoint presentation way?<\/p>\n \n\tI love that my character hangs out with John Cena and learns wrestling moves from him. He also addresses him as John, which Carol hates. There\u2019s a side of Koumba Diabat\u00e9 that\u2019s like, \u201cHey, I see these people as individuals too. Even though they\u2019re part of the hive, they still have individual qualities.\u201d<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tJohn Cena as John Cena in Pluribus.<\/span><\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tApple TV+<\/p>\n<\/div>\n \n\tThat\u2019s interesting that they shot John\u2019s segment after the fact because they recorded Patrick Fabian\u2019s auditory cameo <\/strong>before<\/strong> filming in order to get Rhea to break character. (She didn\u2019t.)<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tYeah, he was scripted, but they flew to Tampa to film him a few weeks after we filmed that scene.<\/p>\n \n\tI hope they release the Vince cut on Blu-ray someday.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\t(Laughs.) I hope so too. \u201cVince, it should\u2019ve just been you!\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tAny form of cannibalism is disturbing, especially since the Joined are probably still consuming the remains of people their virus killed. But their rationale is <\/strong>relatively<\/strong> sound in terms of the impending food scarcity and making use of the other 100,000 people who die per day from natural causes. How did you reconcile their consumption of \u201chuman-derived protein\u201d?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tI love that Koumba is a curious character who\u2019s been doing his own investigations. Like Carol, he\u2019s been investigating how the Others work and why they drink so much milk. He\u2019s a straight shooter, so he is not afraid to ask them questions and understand the rules of the game. He has a rational, diplomatic nature at his core, and he wants to see both sides of the coin.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tAs much as it disturbs him that they\u2019re cannibals, he realizes that this is the only way to give them sustenance, or 8 billion people are going to starve to death. That\u2019s one of the questions about the show: How would you deal with this change? And how would you want to save the world? The answer for Carol is by reversing it; Manousos by [spoiler]; and Diabat\u00e9 by stopping 8 billion people from starving to death.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tYes, they\u2019re cannibals, but they did not kill the [100,000] people [who die per day, post-Joining]. They\u2019re recycling, and it makes sense as disturbing as it is. So it was really interesting to find his logic. At the end of the day, I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t agree with you, but I understand where you\u2019re coming from.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tKoumba\u2019s harem were all wearing leopard-print jackets at the disastrous lunch in Spain, and we now know that they are literally eating people\u2019s faces. Do you think this was a subtle play on the \u201cleopards eating faces\u201d <\/strong>meme<\/strong><\/a>?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tYou are blowing my mind right now. I had not put two and two together. For me, it was just because he\u2019s in his hunter outfit, and they\u2019re his prey. But I did not think about it that deeply. If the writers are going that deep with it, then their genius just continues to blow my mind.<\/p>\n \n\tAs you referenced, it\u2019s not all fun and games for Koumba. He\u2019s holding biweekly Zoom meetings with the other Old-Schoolers to solve the food shortage problem. Going forward, would you like to think that he eventually grows tired of the James Bond-Elvis act and focuses exclusively on the world?<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tWho wouldn\u2019t? How long can you keep this up? How long is it until you\u2019re done playing with all your toys? He has a genie and unlimited wishes. But once you have everything you\u2019ve ever desired \u2014\u00a0the finest foods, the finest drinks, the finest women, the finest fantasies \u2014\u00a0you grow bored of it after a while. So it\u2019s going to come to a point where he does grow tired of it, and luckily, he has this humanitarian quality that he can focus on now that his priority to not become one of the Others is solved.<\/p>\n \n\t***<\/p><\/div><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div><\/div>\n
Pluribus is currently streaming new episodes every Friday on Apple TV. Read THR\u2019s previous interviews with creator Vince Gilligan<\/a>, EP Gordon Smith<\/a> and stars Rhea Seehorn<\/a> and Karolina Wydra<\/a>.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n