<\/p>\n
Olivia Rodrigo was the first breakthrough pop star of this decade, a onetime Disney Channel star who set a fresh template for specific, confessional songwriting on a mass scale.<\/p>\n
On billion-stream smashes like \u201cDrivers License<\/a>\u201d and \u201cGood 4 U,<\/a>\u201d Rodrigo, now 23, built a career on the back of two complementary musical impulses: exasperated power balladry and exasperated pop-punk. On her first two albums, \u201cSour\u201d and \u201cGuts,\u201d her songs had targets; the fury she channeled nailed a frequency that activated a legion of young female fans.<\/p>\n Now on the other side of what Rodrigo calls her first \u201cbig-girl relationship,\u201d the singer-songwriter\u2019s third album, \u201cYou Seem Pretty Sad For a Girl So in Love,\u201d out June 12, takes a step back and then zooms in. Across 13 songs, Rodrigo assesses an ultimately doomed relationship from beginning to breakup in real-time detail \u2014 the raw thrill of a new connection (\u201cDrop Dead,\u201d which debuted at No. 1), the abandon of falling hard (\u201cstupid song,\u201d \u201cu + me = <\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n Initially, she had hoped to write about newfound contentment in a way that wasn\u2019t dull. \u201cThat was a daunting task for me,\u201d Rodrigo told Popcast, The New York Times pop culture show, in her first in-depth interview about the album. As \u201csomeone who was very known for writing breakup songs and being angry and sad,\u201d she said, \u201cI wanted to prove to myself that I didn\u2019t have to be miserable to write a song that I liked.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n About halfway through the album-writing process, her personal story took a turn. Working for a third straight LP with Dan Nigro<\/a>, a producer and songwriting collaborator, Rodrigo went back to tinker and tell a more true story. \u201cAfter writing breakup songs,\u201d she said, \u201cwe had the fun challenge of going back and actually tweaking some of the love songs on the record and making them a little more honest and more sad and creepy.\u201d<\/p>\n Rodrigo cited both \u201cSimple Passion\u201d by the Nobel Prize-winning author Annie Ernaux and \u201cSex and the City\u201d \u2014 specifically the relationship between Miranda and Steve \u2014 as touchstones. \u201cI was really inspired by just all of the ways in which love makes you insane and miserable,\u201d Rodrigo said. To match the feeling, she opted for a 1980s new wave palette that has a more vibrant and complicated range than the hard-charging rock she\u2019s relied on until now.<\/p>\n In conversation with Popcast\u2019s Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli, Rodrigo discussed the many ways her creative process intersects with the extracurricular noise of pop superstardom, whether its managing relationship drama; accusations of pilfering songwriting gestures from Taylor Swift, her onetime idol; being targeted for the way she dresses; or her willingness to speak up about political and social causes in a way many of her peers won\u2019t.<\/p>\n These are edited excerpts from the conversation, which can be watched in full<\/a> or listened to below.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n JON CARAMANICA <\/strong>This album strikes me as a chronological, structured mini-narrative. Are you writing those things in real time as the experiences are happening? Is that how you apply creativity to a lived experience?<\/p>\n OLIVIA RODRIGO <\/strong>For the most part it is chronological and in the order in which it happened in my life and it\u2019s the first time that\u2019s happened. I write songs to process my feelings, so every day when I come and I sit at the piano or I go to the studio, it\u2019s like, What is burning in me to say right now?<\/p>\n JOE COSCARELLI <\/strong>When did you realize you had an ending?<\/p>\n RODRIGO<\/strong> I was always kind of curious about trying to mine these more depressing feelings out of these love songs. I think initially I thought that was what the record was going to be, just all love songs but trying to inject some sadness into them. And then obviously sadness in a real or more whole way crept its way into the end.<\/p>\n COSCARELLI <\/strong>You talk about the destabilizing nature of love and have mentioned \u201cSex and the City\u201d in relation to the album. There\u2019s a song, \u201cMaggots for Brains,\u201d that was one where I\u2019m like, this is a very Miranda song.<\/p>\n RODRIGO<\/strong> Yeah, it\u2019s from the scene where Miranda is getting back together with Steve and she\u2019s like, \u201cAnytime something funny happens, I want to tell you,\u201d and it\u2019s one of the lyrics in the second verse. That\u2019s one of my favorite songs on the record. I think when we made that one, sonically, I was like, oh yeah, this feels right.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n I love rock music and I have such a reverence for rock music, and that\u2019s all that I really listen to. But I think going into it, it didn\u2019t feel exciting to me \u2014 rock in the traditional sense of like, power chords, distortion. But a song like that feels alternative to me without being like, \u201cI Love Rock \u2018n\u2019 Roll\u201d by Joan Jett. <\/em>It was in <\/strong>a more subtle way and that was more exciting to me than writing some really banger thing.<\/p>\n CARAMANICA <\/strong>There are certain moments on this album that are really living in, like, the \u201982 to \u201985 world. You\u2019re getting the Cure, you getting maybe a little Talking Heads, Devo. What does that sound and style signal to you that the pop-punk that you\u2019ve been playing with previously doesn\u2019t?<\/p>\n RODRIGO<\/strong> There was something about the restraint of it that felt nice. I was just really obsessed with that type of music while I was making it. I did Glastonbury with Robert Smith, which was insane. And I\u2019d always been a fan of the Cure but since meeting him and, like, getting to hang out with him I went back and listened to all those new wave bands. I was living in England at the time so obviously you get a lot of English band inspo. For me, in songwriting, the sentiment always comes first. And so I knew that I wanted to write songs about how it felt to be in love. And love feels like that to me \u2014 that vibe, the emotional quality of it.<\/p>\n COSCARELLI<\/strong> You also used a clever trick where you connect the new wave of the \u201980s with music influenced by new wave. There\u2019s some No Doubt on \u201cMy Way\u201d and there are some songs that sound like Le Tigre instead of Bikini Kill.<\/p>\n CARAMANICA <\/strong>Big Olivia fan, Kathleen Hanna.<\/p>\n RODRIGO<\/strong> [whispering exaggeratedly] I love Katheleen Hanna<\/em>.<\/p>\n COSCARELLI <\/strong>The Cure, who span both of those eras, are a throughline in the album. You allude to \u201cJust Like Heaven\u201d in \u201cDrop Dead,\u201d the first song. Then there\u2019s a song called \u201cThe Cure.\u201d What does that song mean to the album story?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n RODRIGO <\/strong>That song is the thesis statement of the album. I remember making that and feeling so excited, like, OK, I know what I\u2019m like trying to say. I think that for so long when I was younger I was always reaching for something. Like, oh, if I have this thing in my career I\u2019ll be happier, if I have this guy and he loves me the way I always thought he would love me, I\u2019ll feel better about myself. And slowly throughout the course of my life and this relationship that I\u2019m talking about, I realized that the issues that you have aren\u2019t going to be solved by some other person.<\/p>\n I also think that falling in love actually makes those issues even clearer to you. You know yourself so deeply and so intimately by falling for people and being raw and gross and making mistakes. And so I was also figuring that out. I was in a relationship that was actually real and intimate for the first time and being like, whoa, this is holding a mirror to me and I\u2019m seeing [expletive] that I don\u2019t like about myself \u2014 that was a tough realization, and I think that that\u2019s embedded in \u201cThe Cure.\u201d I think that\u2019s the apex of the album. I think in all the love songs leading up to it there\u2019s a hint of like, dissatisfaction, and when it gets to \u201cThe Cure,\u201d all the artifice is stripped away.<\/p>\n COSCARELLI<\/strong> How do you look back on \u201cGuts,\u201d your second album<\/a>? I was struck by the fact that this album, even less than the previous two, doesn\u2019t feel like you\u2019re searching for smash hits necessarily. It felt like you wanted to make a capital-A album with a beginning, middle and end. And I wonder if any of that came from either how \u201cGuts\u201d went or didn\u2019t go for you.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n RODRIGO <\/strong>Looking back, I have so much compassion for myself. \u201cSour,\u201d<\/a> that was crazy. At the time, I didn\u2019t realize how crazy it was. And I was 17 when it all happened. So I have a lot of compassion for myself. That was so much pressure. I think putting out [\u201cGuts\u201d], I felt a little like, oh God I\u2019m never going to make anything as big and as good as \u201cSour\u201d and blah blah blah. But looking back, I am so proud of so many of those songs. I think \u201cAll-American Bitch\u201d is my favorite song I\u2019ve ever written. \u201cBad Idea,\u201d I remember thinking at the time, oh, it\u2019s too weird. And I love that song so much now. Just having a little space totally changes your perspective on it. I\u2019m really proud of both of those records. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ll ever regret writing honestly about where I am in my life.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n CARAMANICA <\/strong>What is the most difficult thing that\u2019s happened to you in your personal life that your career prevented you from dealing with properly?<\/p>\n RODRIGO<\/strong> I\u2019ve led a very charmed life. I haven\u2019t had anything really awful happen. This is in no way \u201cwoe is me\u201d but I think I feel really sad that I didn\u2019t really have a childhood.<\/p>\n CARAMANICA <\/strong>Well, that\u2019s basically huge.<\/p>\n RODRIGO <\/strong>It\u2019s fine, it was fine. I\u2019m totally OK, but yeah, it\u2019s a little sad. It reveals itself in certain ways over time \u2014 types of interactions, types of relationships. It\u2019s just a push and pull, like I live one of the most amazing lives, I get to travel the world and have all these incredible experiences, but I wasn\u2019t in high school, I didn\u2019t have a good group of friends in high school.<\/p>\n CARAMANICA <\/strong>Was it tough to form friendships?<\/p>\n RODRIGO<\/strong> Super hard. I have a wonderful group of friends now that I\u2019m really lucky and grateful for, but I do feel like I\u2019m so ahead in certain areas of my life and then maybe like in some social areas I\u2019m a little behind. Because I was a home-schooled only child, it was a very lonely upbringing and I think that\u2019s why I wrote so many songs, too. It made me feel less alone and it made me feel understood.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n COSCARELLI <\/strong>You\u2019ve been so forthcoming about your influences and people who are your heroes and what you\u2019re trying to live up to. Not all artists are like that \u2014 some people are very stingy with giving credit or citing influence. But it\u2019s come back to bite you a couple times, in terms of songwriting credits or album covers, people trying to call you out for borrowing a little too much. How have you pushed through what I assume were pretty hard times, with your creative vision being called into question?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n RODRIGO <\/strong>Yeah, it was a really hard time just personally, but I don\u2019t know, I\u2019m a fan girl, I love music, and nobody can take that away. It sounds so cheesy, but I love music and I feel so lucky that I get to do what I do, and I love so many songs and I\u2019ve grown up being surrounded with awesome music and awesome bands. I would be writing songs if nobody listened and everyone hated it because it\u2019s what I love to do.<\/p>\n CARAMANICA <\/strong>Recently you were at a Paul McCartney concert in Los Angeles. There is a lot of public speculation<\/a> about your relationship with Taylor Swift. In pictures [from that concert], you guys are walking out at the same time, and then there\u2019s people on the internet being like, Are they facing each other? Are they facing away?<\/em> How do you view that layer of scrutiny?<\/p>\n RODRIGO <\/strong>Yeah, I don\u2019t know, I really don\u2019t read too far into it. I think if I dove into every internet detective sleuth that got things right or wrong about my life or any of my relationships, I think I would just go crazy. There\u2019s just not enough time in the day.<\/p>\n CARAMANICA <\/strong>Is there a frost between you and Taylor? How do you view that now that you\u2019re a few years removed from the initial ruptures?<\/p>\n RODRIGO <\/strong>I don\u2019t know, I think I try to not let it get to me or upset me. I just try to keep on truckin\u2019. It was so long ago, there\u2019s no use in harping on it. I just try to make songs that I love and try to be kind and good to other people and supportive of other people. And at the end of the day, I think that\u2019s all you can do.<\/p>\n COSCARELLI<\/strong> One of the other things you\u2019ve been a lightning rod over, bringing back a conversation from 20, 25 years ago, is the idea of the baby-doll dress and what it means to riot grrrl and what it means to dress subversively, versus other people who say it\u2019s infantilizing.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n RODRIGO <\/strong>That\u2019s been making me so upset. What\u2019s really disturbing is I feel like I have worn outfits that are revealing onstage \u2014 I\u2019ve been onstage in a sparkly bra and little shorts. I felt cool and comfortable in that and that wasn\u2019t inappropriate, but me fully covered up in a dress that people deem to be childlike was inappropriate.<\/p>\n I just think it just shows how we normalize pedophilia in our culture. It\u2019s just this rhetoric that we\u2019re fed as girls since we\u2019re so little, which is like, don\u2019t wear that because then a man is going to sexualize your body and it\u2019s your fault. I didn\u2019t think that I looked sexy in that at all. I was like, this is so cool. I feel like Kathleen Hanna or Courtney Love, all these people who are my heroes. And I felt cool and comfortable in it.<\/p>\n I just think if we start dressing in a way that\u2019s like, oh I don\u2019t want some [expletive] freak to think that I\u2019m a sexy like a baby or like something crazy thing like that, I just think it\u2019s losing the plot a little bit. I\u2019m just very protective of younger women and girls and I don\u2019t ever want them to be fed that rhetoric. You shouldn\u2019t be responsible for some guy sexualizing you in a way that was never your intention.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n COSCARELLI<\/strong> Speaking of that audience and the platform that you have, I think one thing that separates your generation of pop star from the ones that immediately precede it is your comfort being explicitly political and using that stage to speak to young, impressionable fans. You memorably spoke out when Roe v. Wade was overturned<\/a>, you\u2019ve since come out against<\/a> the use of your music by the Trump administration, you\u2019ve talked anti-ICE<\/a>, you\u2019ve spoken about Gaza<\/a>. Have you received any pushback behind the scenes telling you that that\u2019s a risk to your business?<\/p>\n RODRIGO <\/strong>Honestly, I feel like I\u2019m surrounded with people who are very like-minded, and I really appreciate that. No one has ever been like, don\u2019t do that, no. I really try to stay educated on things, but I don\u2019t know everything. I am an artist, and what I do for my job is \u2018this is how I feel,\u2019 and present it to people. And I think it would just be disingenuous to be like, I don\u2019t feel heartbroken about what\u2019s going on in Gaza. You know what I mean? I always feel like I could be doing more and saying more.<\/p>\n Popcast is hosted by Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli and produced by Sophie Erickson and Kate LoPresti. This episode was filmed by Lauren Pruitt, Dave Mayers and Pat Gunther and edited by Mark Zemel. Our theme music is by Elisheba Ittoop. Nick Pitman is our audio engineer and Amanda Webster is our photo editor. Brooke Minters is our executive producer. Header video cinematography is by Tim Schutsky.<\/p>\n Special thanks to Rebecca Blandon, Sarah Bonn, Dahlia Haddad, Mike Cordero, Chris Moore, Nicole Huber, Zach Caldwell, Maddy Masiello, Brad Kimbrough, Andrew Wilcox, Sia Michel, Nina Lassam and Sam Dolnick.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n \u2018 The preceding article may include information circulated by third parties \u2019 <\/em><\/p>\n \u2018 Some details of this article were extracted from the following source www.nytimes.com \u2019 <\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Olivia Rodrigo was the first breakthrough pop star of this decade, a onetime Disney Channel star who set a fresh template for specific, confessional songwriting on a mass scale. On billion-stream smashes like \u201cDrivers License\u201d and \u201cGood 4 U,\u201d Rodrigo, now 23, built a career on the back of two complementary musical impulses: exasperated power […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":2460303,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"jnews-multi-image_gallery":[],"jnews_single_post":[],"jnews_primary_category":[],"jnews_social_meta":[],"footnotes":""},"categories":[25179],"tags":[356577,365095,356576,58502,483801],"class_list":["post-2460302","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-music","tag-content-type-personal-profile","tag-olivia-2003","tag-pop-and-rock-music","tag-rodrigo","tag-you-seem-pretty-sad-for-a-girl-so-in-love-album"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/celebrity.land\/en\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/Olivia-Rodrigo-Discusses-the-Inspiration-Behind-Her-New-Album.jpg","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/celebrity.land\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2460302","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/celebrity.land\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/celebrity.land\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/celebrity.land\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/celebrity.land\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2460302"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/celebrity.land\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2460302\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2460304,"href":"https:\/\/celebrity.land\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2460302\/revisions\/2460304"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/celebrity.land\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2460303"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/celebrity.land\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2460302"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/celebrity.land\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2460302"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/celebrity.land\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2460302"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}Credits<\/span><\/h3>\n