‘I am the Same Person On and Off Camera’

In Netflix’s talent-hunt show Simon Cowell: The Next Act, due in December, a guy best known for issuing stern judgments from behind a desk on American Idol and X-Factor reveals himself as a loving dad with no shortage of anxiety. “I am very worried — I think we’re gonna fail,” Cowell says in the show after audition sign-ups are initially anemic.

The series, which traces the formation of a new boy band, also proves that the fundamental formula somehow still works — there’s always an unknown kid out there who can unleash talent so raw and obvious that even Cowell breaks character. “ I’m trying to keep a poker face on and not smile,” he says in the new episode of our Rolling Stone Music Now podcast, “but I couldn’t help myself.” To hear the whole interview, go here for the podcast provider of your choice, listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or just press play above.

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So why put yourself through this again?
We were sitting around, me and my team, and we were saying, “God, we really miss working with bands.” And then there was this element of “Oh, God, if it was a disaster, there is a strong likelihood that I wouldn’t do this again.” So there was a sense of finality. And of course you want to prove yourself to yourself. Can I still do it again? The world has changed a lot. Music’s changed. But at the heart of it, weirdly, nothing really has changed because it really still comes down to the same basics, which is you’ve gotta find stars.

What was your biggest fear about this process?
Oh, it was everything. You’ve gotta be confident. Otherwise, why bother doing it? I mean, I didn’t do this to fail. At the same time, once we started the process, I was like, “Oh God, what if no one turns up?” That was a huge factor. And the real fear was — when we narrowed the numbers down and I was flying them out to the U.S. to work with producers and very well-known vocal coaches and musicians — what if they sound terrible?

People have said that unconventional voices — a Bob Dylan or Frank Ocean — would never make it through your shows. What do you make of that?
When I heard Bob Dylan’s version of that Adele song, “Make You Feel My Love,” I didn’t know he wrote the song. I think if he’d walked in and sang that version, I’m not gonna lie, I would’ve gone, “Forget it.” Seriously. Look, I’m not a fan of Bob Dylan, but if people like him, then they like him, and if you don’t, that’s fine.

What do you think of American Idol in the post-Simon years?
I haven’t watched it. We really did have a good time — me, Randy [Jackson], and Paula [Abdul], when it was the three of us. It was just brilliant. And then I think after Paula left, I thought, “Yeah, that’s it. It’s not gonna be the same now.” And so I was very quick to follow.

It is always been incredible to me that you guys got it so right with Kelly Clarkson in the first season of American Idol.
Oh, it was like a dream. I do remember actually saying to someone, hypothetically, “I’m certain there’s someone out there and he or she’s probably working in a bar, has tried to get a deal, can’t get into the right people or the label, but is brilliant.” I just had that feeling. It took a while to get there. Some of the early people we saw in the first couple of cities — everyone was terrible. So I thought this show could be a disaster.

You couldn’t have asked for a more perfect winner. And we’re still friends today. She’s a amazing person, incredible personality. And just this killer voice. It was like a movie. I just wish it wasn’t the guy. There was this other girl, Tamara, and she was phenomenal, and the two of them in the final [episode], that could have been amazing, but it didn’t quite work out.

You felt that Justin Guarini was not good enough competition for Kelly?
No, no way. I think he would be the first to admit it himself.

When Jennifer Hudson got voted off, was that a sign something was wrong with the process?
No, it was a song choice. I said, “don’t sing that song — I just don’t think it’s gonna resonate.” So when it happened, yeah, there was an uproar because she was so good. In a weird way, it was the best thing that could have ever happened to her because there was such an outcry that she got that part in [Dreamgirls]. What was so funny was everybody thought I was somehow responsible for her being voted out.  I wasn’t the one who was voting! I went to the Oscars party that year, and of course she was nominated, and everyone was staring at me — “oh, you are going to really get it.” And then of course she won. Everyone kept staring at me and I’m like, “I’m happy! What do you think? I’m unhappy? It wasn’t my fault!”

Your biggest signing ever was One Direction, and we lost Liam Payne last year. How do you understand that tragedy?
When I heard the news, it really hit me. I saw him a year before this happened. He came over to my house. We talked about his son and being a dad. I remember saying, “Music is not everything.  Don’t let it run your life anymore. Find something else that you are passionate about.” You ask yourself that question: “Could I have done anything more? What would’ve happened to Liam if he hadn’t been in the band?” Having spoken to his mom and dad recently, all they kept telling me was he was so proud of what he had achieved. I wish I could turn back the clock, of course. When I spoke to him that day, I felt really good about him. I thought, “Wow, you seem in a really good place.”

People were casting around for someone to blame, and some landed on you. Was that hurtful? 
I don’t read any of this stuff because if I did, you would just torture yourself. The idea that you are essentially responsible for somebody’s life, 10 years after you’ve signed someone? You can’t do that.

You built a reputation on being brutally honest with people. But do you ever look back and think you crossed a line into cruelty?
Look, every one of us is gonna say at one point, God, I shouldn’t have said that. But it’s kinder to be really clear to someone who has zero talent. “Do not think that if you carry on doing this, something magical is gonna happen and you are gonna become the biggest rock star or pop star in the world, if you can’t sing.” The show is supposed to be honest, and I’m not going to bullshit these people and give them fake hope. If Eric, my son, said, “Dad, I want to be a singer,” and he sang to me and every note was outta tune, I would say, “Darling, you can’t sing.” I wouldn’t lie to him.

It fascinates me that Harry Styles’ audition for you was so vocally shaky, as I’m sure he’d be the first to admit. But this is a guy who went on to become a superstar. What does that tell us?
You’re looking for potential. There’s no such thing as the perfect audition. Most people are nervous. They choose the wrong song, or they haven’t had the experience. You know, he was very young when he came on the show. He did have tremendous charisma. He came out, he was funny. The audience instantly liked him., I didn’t think he was ready to compete as a solo artist that year. So we thought, very quickly, along with some other boys who were in a similar situation, wouldn’t it be better for them to start off in a band?

What would’ve happened to Harry if he hadn’t come on the show or hadn’t been in One Direction? No one could predict that. He would say the same thing, I think.  Harry’s smart. I always knew that about him. He understood his audience. And he’s gotten better over the years. That’s the great thing.

How do you want to be remembered?
You are referring to my age! I go to this wellness clinic where they actually take your blood, they rinse it, they filter it, they put it back into your body. I’ve actually aged backwards by eating better, more exercise, less stress.

So your plan is to live forever?
I actually was gonna freeze myself once because I thought why not? But then I found out you basically come back in 2,000 years as a floating head. I’d like to be remembered as somebody who’s always worked hard. I do believe that I’ve been nice to everyone I’ve met. I’ve met a lot of people who are nice on camera [but] are absolute monsters off camera. I am the same person on and off camera.

Download and subscribe to Rolling Stone‘s weekly podcast, Rolling Stone Music Now, hosted by Brian Hiatt, on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or go here for the podcast provider of your choice. Check out nine years’ worth of episodes in the archive, including in-depth interviews with artists including Mariah Carey, Bruce Springsteen, Questlove, Halsey, Missy Elliott, Dua Lipa, Neil Young, Snoop Dogg, Brandi Carlile, Phoebe Bridgers, Rick Ross, Alicia Keys, the National, Brian May, Roger Taylor, Ice Cube, Taylor Hawkins, Willow, Keith Richards, Robert Plant, Killer Mike, Julian Casablancas, Sheryl Crow, Johnny Marr, Scott Weiland, Liam Gallagher, Alice Cooper, Fleetwood Mac, Elvis Costello, John Legend, Donald Fagen, Charlie Puth, Phil Collins, Justin Townes Earle, Stephen Malkmus, Sebastian Bach, Tom Petty, Eddie Van Halen, Kelly Clarkson, Pete Townshend, Bob Seger, the Zombies, and Gary Clark Jr. And look for dozens of episodes featuring genre-spanning discussions, debates, and explainers with Rolling Stone‘s critics and reporters.

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