I really do love a great outdoor music venue.
I also really do love not living right next to a great outdoor music venue.
In Fletcher where I live, on summer nights we can hear the band at the Auction House restaurant/bar at the corner of Fanning Bridge and Hendersonville Road, although it’s not annoyingly loud. Events at Bill Moore Community Park, maybe a mile from our house, are a little more audible, especially baseball games that get parents riled up.
It’s a nuisance, but not any kind of deal breaker. Still, I wouldn’t want it any closer.
My wife and I have been to several outdoor shows at Asheville Yards this summer and really like that downtown venue. But ever since Salvage Station and The Outpost, two separate venues on the French Broad River, got wiped out by Helene last year, the outdoor music scene has been a little less vibrant.
So when the Ashevegas news blog first reported that a group of seven longtime managers at the Orange Peel live music venue got together to form Big Picture Concert Group and plan to open a new outdoor music venue on Thompson Street, I let out a little internal “Woohoo!”
But my “Woohooo” was quickly followed by an “Uh-oh” when I read the details on the location of this new venue — 155 Thompson St., the former home of Brouwerïj Cursus Kĕmē, a super-cool brewery created from a former tractor-trailer motor repair shop right on the Swannanoa River. It too got erased by Helene, which was a shame because the interior of that place was just fabulous, with thick wooden slab tables and engine blocks supporting the bar.
At first blush, this seems like a great spot for an outdoor concert venue, as it’s in an industrial area and not far from the Tunnel Road commercial strip. Perfect, right?
Not quite. Look at it a little closer at it on a map, and you’ll notice that the Kenilworth neighborhood lies not far to the northwest, the Oakley neighborhood not far to the southeast.
It also didn’t take long for comments and concerns to start flying about potential noise issues, including this Answer Man query I got last week:
“I am wondering if you can find out if it is true that there are plans for a 6,000-person music venue at 155 Thompson St. in Asheville? I live close by that area in Oakley, and I’m hoping that this is just a rumor. I cannot imagine that kind of a facility, with all its noise and traffic, being in this neighborhood.”
Um, just let your imagination run wild, ‘cause it’s true.
Liz Whalen Tallent, part of the Big Picture Group, issued a statement noting that the group “recently completed the purchase of the Orange Peel from its visionary founders, Public Interest Projects.
“Together, the seven of us have overseen every aspect of the Orange Peel’s operations and all its related projects and venues since 2006, and for the last six months our focus has been creating a new home for the Peel’s outdoor shows,” Tallent’s statement said. “Despite the extreme difficulty of 2024 from the challenges that Helene brought, and those we faced as a small business, our team has stuck together and made the deliberate choice to keep our local staff together.”
That difficulty included a lawsuit between Orange Peel Events/Public Interest Projects and Asheville Pizza & Brewing (which now goes by Ninja Brewing) over Ninja Brewing’s move to rebranding the Rabbit Rabbit concert venue as Asheville Yards Amphitheater. Ninja promised more shows and family entertainment, but the Orange Peel cried foul about the move (the lawsuit continues, Tallent told me).
“Our commitment to each other has been to do all we can to rebuild our business for the sake of our team, and to try to invest in Asheville’s recovery as we look towards what’s next,” the Tallent/Big Picture Group statement said.
Plans on file with the city
The group’s plans for the site are on file with the city of Asheville, as it has to secure a flood plain development permit. Those plans call for creating an outdoor concrete venue with multiple shipping containers for merchandise, beer sales and a box office, as well as a stage measuring 82 feet by 40 feet.
Events will have a maximum of 6,000 attendees, according to the permits.
As of Oct. 21, the city said it has completed the initial review of the site plan. Planning administrators noted issues regarding landscaping, access, drainage and more.
But it’s important to note that this site will not require Asheville City Council approval. It’s a Level I permit review, which falls under staff administrative review, according to city spokesperson Kim Miller, who checked with the city Planning & Urban Design department.
The property is within the River District, so it will face a mandatory review by the Design Review Committee. Public comment is accepted at these meetings, although this particular meeting hasn’t been scheduled yet, Miller said.
The venue will have to meet all related flood standards because it’s in a floodplain.
“No permanent occupiable structure has been proposed at this time,” Miller said. “The stage, bathrooms, food and beverage areas, as well as the stage are all features that can be removed from the site in case of a significant weather event.”
The group has also applied for a right-of-way closure on Mulvaney Street, and such requests have to be reviewed by the Technical Review Committee (the public may attend this remote meeting but may not comment). The city’s Multimodal Commission, as well as City Council, will also have to review this requested street closure.
One complaint I often hear from people living near music venues is that they host a lot of concerts — as in too many.
Miller said the city’s code allows applicants for outdoor venues to apply for a noise exceedance permit that allows them to hold up to 30 events a year and events have to be done by 10 p.m.
As far as noise mitigation, the city doesn’t require any.
“The applicant has proposed a fence on the property boundary but this will not reduce the noise levels,” Miller said.
Not surprisingly, the city file has already drawn a couple of emails from concerned neighbors, including one who owns four properties in the area and expressed concerns about trash, traffic congestion and parking, particularly the potential for concert-goers to park on private property.
Tyler Kelley, an urban planner with the city, responded issue by issue.
“The city’s Unified Development Ordinance does not impose minimum parking requirements for this type of use,” Kelley wrote. “However, parking and access remain a significant concern for city staff, and we anticipate these issues will be addressed during the right of way closure review.”
As for trash, Kelley said, “Developments of this scale typically utilize private services for trash collection. We are committed to preventing litter in public rights-of-way and near the Swannanoa River.”
Another neighbor was mostly concerned about the potential for noise.
“I think having a huge outdoor music arena on Thompson Street is a terrible idea,” she wrote. “People live near there. I live near there. Large arenas should be downtown. We already have one big outdoor arena downtown. We don’t want to hear loud music in our homes from an arena a mile or two away.”
She concluded by stating that the Orange Peel “needs to get a place farther out.”
The kicker is this person also said she’s a music lover and goes to lots of venues.
“The problem is NOT that we don’t have a big space in the city — it’s that there is so much going on we have to choose where to go on any given evening,” she wrote.
When an avowed music lover is dissing your proposal, you’ve got troubles.
Reassurance on parking and noise issues
In a followup email, Tallent told me that all these questions and concerns folks have “are being thoroughly considered.
“While plans aren’t yet at a stage to address every detail, I do want to offer some reassurance around parking and sound, which we understand are key questions that readers may have,” Tallent said.
Here’s what Big Picture Group hopes to provide as far as transportation and parking:
- Concert goers will be able to purchase pre-reserved parking in nearby surface lots, so they will know where they’re headed before they arrive.
- A shuttle service from large retail centers with overflow parking will be provided, along with designated rideshare zones, and coordination with law enforcement to prevent show traffic from parking on residential streets.
- Tallent also noted that the city is making progress on the Swannanoa River Greenway, “which will offer a safe, scenic route for pedestrians and cyclists extending from Glendale to Bleachery Boulevard. As has always been our practice for outdoor shows, we’ll work with local law enforcement to secure officers for contracted help with traffic flow on show nights,” she said.
Tallent also addressed noise concerns.
“Regarding sound, when we open new outdoor venues, we work with professional audio consultants to create decibel maps that guide site planning and feasibility,” Tallent said. “In 10 years of outdoor shows at multiple locations, we’ve never received a noise citation. Our professional tech team uses directional speakers with line array technology, and strategic stage orientation to minimize impact on residential neighbors.”
Tallent said their current sound modeling for the Thompson Street site “determines that sound levels from shows in the nearest neighborhoods will remain well below Asheville’s allowable decibel limits. Also, amplification will be directed towards the Tunnel Road commercial area and I-240, “away from Oakley or Kenilworth,” Tallent said.
“Though we’re still early in the process, we’re excited for what this project could bring to the local music scene, our community’s post-Helene economy, and our fans and artists,” Tallent said. “We’ll continue to share updates and engage with neighbors in the coming weeks.”
I imagine that interaction is going to get a little saucy.
As I say, I’m a huge fan of outdoor venues (by the way, one of the Salvage Station owners told me last week they still don’t have any concrete plans for a replacement). But I also 100 percent understand the complaints of neighbors and the impacts these places can have.
The city needs to let them have their say and stay informed during the entire process. I hope Big Picture can work all this out and give us a venue that’s great for musicians and music lovers, and one that won’t negatively affect the nearby neighborhoods — at least not too much.
That will be a trick.
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