“We are going to get everything due us,” Pusha T remembers thinking when he and Malice embarked upon their reunion as the rap group Clipse. With that mindset, the brothers Terrence and Gene Thornton stormed into 2025 with a new album and a vengeance, both reasserting their legacy as two of the best coke rap MCs to ever do it and establishing themselves as formidable contenders in the contemporary hip-hop landscape. Let God Sort Em Out is, after their more than 15-year hiatus, one of the most authoritative comebacks the genre has ever seen—if you dare describe it as such. Push and Malice would rather you recognize the album as them delivering on the level they have always done, all while deepening their range.
Before the album came out this summer, I had a fiery conversation with them for GQ where they staked their claim as the best rap duo out there and aired out all outstanding beefs (and revealed some new ones); that interview became the de facto start to the year’s most engaging album rollout. Since we last talked, they’ve solidified their status as having the best rap album of the year, headlined a nationwide tour big enough to bring the reclusive Kendrick Lamar out for a cameo, and made history as the first rappers to perform at the Vatican.
Next up? Pursuing their first-ever Grammy.
GQ: One thing that we heard this year was a lot of people were really into the rollout, especially the intention behind it. But the funny thing is that the way you rolled the album out was traditional, in a sense. But I think that speaks to a feeling that was missing, and you had to help restore it.
Pusha T: You got to understand, we’re creating this music, but we’re also trying to really re-create the enthusiasm amongst ourselves. We got the enthusiasm, but we’re trying to see it and feel it in the world. I’m not getting up, going to 7-Eleven, picking up a mag, arguing with my man about somebody got three-and-a-half mics.
Those touchpoints aren’t really out here like that anymore. People aren’t sitting down with Frazier. They’re not! They won’t do it, bro! They’re surprise-dropping the music so they don’t have to get no feedback on nothing. This is what they’ll do versus like, “Yo. Let’s put it on the table. We really standing on it.” People talk about standing on business. This is the best way to do it musically.
And then it means that much more when you come out onstage and say “Album of the Year.”
Pusha T: Exactly. When you talk about the nostalgia of hip-hop journalism, what it meant being hot in the streets, the chatter, the opinions, the lunch-table arguments, the barbershop arguments—that’s what the whole mindset of that rollout was about.
In the midst of that, did you feel a sort of protectiveness over your brother? One thing that came up when we spoke last time was the foolishness that can surround the industry. Bringing him back into the fold, was there a sense of, I’m not going to bring you into a shit show?
Pusha T: That was definitely my mentality. But I feel like in my heart, I was like, we are going to get everything due us. It’s got to look a certain way, be a certain way, feel a certain way. The trifecta of myself, my brother, and Pharrell…. There’s nobody else that we need musically to do what we got to do. Just our circle. People who are not with the agenda, I don’t want to be connected to it. Selfishly, I don’t want nothing to do with anyone. How about that? [Laughs.] That’s just what it is.
Not to get too meta, but you got criticism for some interviews, like ours and others, about being confrontational [airing out grievances with the likes of Kanye and Travis Scott]. Some people would say that you’re stoking that to promote.
Malice: Yeah, but look who’s saying that, though. Because on the other end of that spectrum, there are people who really see clearly that Pusha don’t lean on that kind of stuff. And look how long he sat on what has been going on. But that’s what they do on the other side. So they think that we play that over here, but nah, we don’t. And we don’t snitch and we don’t tell.
Standing on it. Say what I had to say, and that’s it.
Pusha T: You can’t let the journalism be a main focus of the rollout and you tiptoe around shit. I wasn’t going to come in and give you scenarios, and be tiptoeing around the stories. I’ll take the criticism, it’s fine. But never call me a liar. Because I never lie. I never lie. Lemme tell you something: I think lying’s for bitches. If you lie about shit, that’s because you’re scared of something, and I’m not scared of anything or anybody. So what I say is what I say.
So take it back to this time last year. I’m sure you were probably a little bit frustrated with having this great body of work on deck, but bullshit label politics holding it up. But in a way, it’s like there’s a sense of divine timing here because this year is unfolding incredibly in a way that could have only unfolded with that series of events, right?
Pusha T: It’s something that I feel like I’ve learned, and I’ve learned it a lot from watching my brother too. He doesn’t get ruffled by anything that happens. He goes with the flow of everything. I’ve never had that approach—man, I try to keep everything in line, in order. This is how it’s supposed to go. And with this particular project, man, I couldn’t have been more wrong in having that attitude.
Malice: Well, I’ve always had the same approach he had. I learned this approach. I was taught this approach.
In what ways did both of you come to learn that?
Malice: Because life will hand you a bunch of curveballs and trying to be in control and manage everything can put you at your wit’s end—and then it still happens the way that it was meant to happen. So that’s just something that I learned in this 16-year absence for sure.
Pusha, I’m picturing that classic video of you banging on the wall, yelling to drop “Numbers on the Boards.” I know you were doing that this time last year.
Pusha T: No, for sure. Are you kidding me, man? And to think we had the heat. When we make it, we are extremely confident about it and eager to put it out. It’s all about letting people hear it. You know what I’m saying? And just getting yourself in the conversation and taking the critiques, the good with the bad. That’s the type of energy we thrive off of. It’s always competitive, but it’s always about hearing the opinions and just being like, you know, they might be a little right about that, or whatever the case may be. I just love to hear it all, but not being able to get it out, man, it’s stifling. We know what the hell we doing at all times. When it’s cooked, it’s cooked. And we know it’s cooked. There’s never extras and leftovers. It’s not a lot of going back and retinkering and retooling. I let Pharrell do that on production stuff. But as far as these raps go, no way.
Can we talk about process a little? Pharrell was cooking up à la carte, right? I think you said this to Joe Budden, about how you have to sometimes tell Pharrell what you don’t want or to scale things back. What is that process like, to fine-tune everything, where the three of you have been working together for so long, but still chasing new highs?
Pusha T: I think we find it’s a lot of different emotions that go into that process. But then you get into the stubbornness of knowing exactly what you want and not wanting to waver. I’m extremely passionate about hard-core, lyric-driven hip-hop. I think that’s where you show your skill set. I don’t think that ever goes out of style. And I don’t think a lot of people can do it with taste and swag. So if that’s not the target or the bull’s-eye—after song one, two, or three, I’m getting pissed. P’s like, “Nah, man, you need these colors.” I’m like, “Man, listen, you better get to it.”
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